Hi everyone, and welcome to the Top 3 for Tech Marketers podcast, I’m your host Renee Yeager, and today we’re talking about channel marketing. Specifically, how enterprise tech companies and their partners including value-added resellers, managed service providers, and others drive demand for the products and services that they sell. You know, a lot has changed in recent months with Covid-19 and it’s really forced marketers overall to rethink their marketing programs – not only what we say, but how we communicate with customers and potential buyers. But what about your channel partners? They look to suppliers for guidance on marketing and traditionally have spent the bulk of their marketing effort on in person events whether it is an industry conference or a lunch and learn or a C-level dinner. And those events are great, but they are not happening right now. So, what do you do? How do we enable the channel to continue marketing and even improve their ROI, with marketing programs that are more measurable, trackable, longer term, and deliver more qualified leads to sales?
The answer to that is digital marketing, specifically paid advertising and social media.
My guest today is Jason Carriere from LinkedIn and we’re talking about the top 3 benefits of digital marketing for the channel. Jason has worked with tech companies and in the channel for over 25 years, and he currently runs LinkedIn’s Enterprise Technology IT Channel within their LinkedIn Marketing Solutions (LMS) business unit where he helps suppliers, distributors and partners leverage the scale and reach of LinkedIn’s massive 690M member platform to grow their businesses. He brings a ton of marketing knowhow and experience and we had a great conversation about how digital marketing, specifically LinkedIn, is a great way forward for the channel. Here’s my conversation with Jason Carriere.
Renee Yeager: Welcome, Jason. Welcome to the podcast.
Jason Carriere: Thanks for having me Renee. It’s my pleasure to be here.
Renee Yeager: I’m really excited that you’re here today and to be talking to another fan of the channel. So today we’re going to be talking specifically about digital marketing for the channel. And before we jump into the top three benefits, I’m really curious what you hear when you talk to suppliers or distributors or partners themselves about digital marketing. What’s their perspective on it? And, you know, did they embrace it, are they struggling with it? What are you hearing?
Jason Carriere: That’s a great question. I appreciate the opportunity to come on today as well. So, as you know, I’ve been in the channel for about 25 years and here at LinkedIn, I run what we call our IT channel vertical. Serving in this capacity for about 18 months now. So, I have a broad perspective around being able to kind of look back and even as far back into the mid 90s around tail marketing and programs and whatnot. And I would say that what I’ve seen in terms of from a channel and you know strategy or bracing of digital and social over the last, you know, couple of months, especially as the Covid crisis has really forced channel partners to sort of get into a digital social stance, so to speak, in terms of how they go to market and why they go to market because they can’t do those in person events anymore.
And it’s interesting because there is sort of a digital social maturity curve that I think channel partners of all sizes are going through right now. Having spent 10 years at CDW in the beginning of my 25-year career, obviously, and I came from an organization that, you know, was really at the vanguard in terms of doing marketing and really seeing the value. Interestingly enough, as I kind of look back on the corridor of time around how these programs have sort of, you know, matured over the years, I think a lot of channel partners today are somewhat still skeptical and concerned about being able to drive demand far and quick enough for their vendor partners when they give them those marketing dollars. And the question I always ask them is, you know, it’s not necessarily about being able to get leads or, you know, hand-raisers today, but you have to constantly filling your funnel.
The other thing you have to do is you have to help your salespeople develop, you know, sort of top of mind awareness before they reach out to individuals. And as far as like prospects, or even clients for that matter. So being able to kind of successfully use marketing and branding and tools, and digital tools that is, and then using platforms like LinkedIn really is critical around the ability for partners to scale, especially in the channel as they sort of develop this digital muscle in which that they then can use to go to market on longer term basis.
Renee Yeager: Yeah, that makes sense. And I mean you are really, I think the point about different levels of sophistication and even resources within the channel partners is really important, right, because you may have larger partners that have marketing teams and are doing their own marketing and then you may have smaller partners that are, you know, embracing your technology and pushing it but don’t have that level of sophistication, so I think the thing with digital is that it can feel overwhelming. And if you have any experience running a paid search campaign or display, the targeting is really tough, especially for B2B companies and you are more driving traffic than leads. So, then there’s a whole conversion effort that has to happen with that traffic that you’re driving and if the sophistication isn’t there I think that’s where things fall down, right? And you end up spending a lot of money that you know isn’t really getting you the result that you want.
Jason Carriere: Yeah. And so I think the old golden model you think of, you know, crawl walk, run right? I think a lot of companies take when they approach digital, especially within the channel. And once again, you know, think about thousands of partners globally, you know, Microsoft alone has, I believe, somewhere in the neighborhood of about 360,000 partners. I can sell their products on a global basis, just a huge number. And so, whether you’re a three-person company, you know, CSP MSP or whether you know you’re at the CWSHI connection insight level in terms of multibillion dollar you know businesses. I think the challenge is that you don’t want to bite off more than you can chew and the crawl walk, run model is really a good one that we’ve sort of talked about to our own channel partners here at LinkedIn. For a number of you know of quarters now, which has been, how do you first start making it organically, and then how do you sort of scale your business, or your advertising efforts off of that organic sort of starting spot or starting place.
I was talking to a very well-known distributor yesterday in Canada, and we talked about budgets and investing and I said you know if the budget is that low and it gives you pause to launch a campaign or program, then obviously don’t do it, right? You know, sometimes it’s not always about, you know, just trying to get something, you know, set for the vendors, but think about having an organic strategy for perhaps your you can, you know, have some Creative Services charges. For content that you might create in one quarter. And then you could build and those are accrual dollars and you have dollars for the next quarter, where you can actually put digital spend against it in terms of marketing advertising. And so it’s not always a straight line.
It’s rather circuitous at times in regard to how partners can sort of build this muscle. The cool thing about what LinkedIn does is you know we offer sort of the keys, the cards, the client, where they can actually launch their own campaigns. But oftentimes, they tend to come to agencies such as Yeager for instance, for their expertise and for scalability. And so the great thing about what LinkedIn is doing in the marketplace today is, yes, we can enable that end user digital marketing manager or digital social manager to launch their own campaigns on LinkedIn. But, then we also work with the agencies as well within the channel to make sure that there’s sort of a kind of a three way communication you know bridge in essence between us, the agency, and then also the end user client whereby they then can basically, you know, sort of learn from the agency, learn from us. We can learn from the client and agency as well about best practices that they’ve had in the marketplace. And I think that it sort of takes the fear and intimidation away a little bit in regards to being able to scale programs on a longer term basis because they can kind of start with someone and the process that is more amenable to where they are today in terms the marketplace and just their digital future. Yeah.
Renee Yeager: They get those best practices out of the gate so they don’t have to guess.
Jason Carriere: Yeah, that’s right, yeah.
Renee Yeager: For sure. And we’re super excited to be working with you guys and are huge believers and you know historically the channel has been really focused around events. And you know there were, and this is getting into the first benefit that you mentioned is that, you know, it can be hard to track ROI on events, you know, and where that lead goes and you know with digital, as you say, you know, efficiency and campaign tracking is a huge benefit in moving to digital marketing. So, let’s talk a little bit about efficiency and tracking. What are the different ways that digital campaigns create efficiencies for partners?
Jason Carriere: So I think the biggest way of doing that, the biggest efficiency that partners get today is basically scale and its reach. And so you know harkening back to my days when I was at AMD and dealing running, you know, channel sales teams, you know, 12-14 years ago. You know, I’d love in person events. My reseller and distribution partners loved in person events, my channel managers who worked for me at the time, loved them as well. Because there’s nothing quite like getting to a customer or prospect who’s qualified in regards to an event and that could be an event as simple as, you know, the traditional dinner and drinks and whatnot and having a conversation within a territory about products or could be you know something a little bit more
you know, robust right in terms of maybe you’re at for a whole day on the golf course or whatever the case might be. And so, what I’ve told clients consistently within the channel, in terms of our clients, has been: We’re not here to to take those away. We’re not here to say that you shouldn’t be doing those because you have to do those. I get it. I’ve lived that life and I saw the value and saw the ROI. It’s not an either or, it’s an and. So, you should do those programs and also advertise and also do organic and also think about in terms of like retargeting campaigns. And the big differentiator for what I’ve seen in terms of having been on the LinkedIn platform you know my profiles been out there since 06. I’ve been a power user for almost 15 years now, I love the platform. Long before I came to the company. But the amazing thing about LinkedIn is the ability to reach effectively in terms of targeting and whether you’re Renee or Jason or someone else in the channel today and you have a product or an idea or some sort of position to take out or just take out within LinkedIn around and advocacy of some type. The cool thing is you get that reach and scale and you can’t get that through in person events necessarily, right? In person events are really long and the opportunities to have to be very qualified. The cool thing about, you know, LinkedIn, in particular, and digital in general is the fact that you can kind of break through a lot of the noise that you have in the marketplace today by being very targeted in what you’re going to speak about or being very targeted and we actually utilize as far as an audience segmentation. Of course there’s vanity metrics and click through rates and you know how long folks are looking at different videos and whatnot and being able to kind of push someone down the sales funnel over to your sales cycle right for a data center solution as an example, but ultimately what we’re really talking about too is the fact of building relationships digitally with prospects and current clients. And that digital relationship building is really scalable and efficient on LinkedIn from a digital platform standpoint because you have this sort of understanding within the platform today that you’re going to be targeting and speaking about things that are relevant to your audience and oftentimes that comes from the heart. So whether you post your own, you know, sort of thoughts on an article or story on LinkedIn or whether you’re sharing content from Michael Dell or sharing content from Jeff Weiner, LinkedIn’s chairman, you have the ability then to sort of build an audience and a following around who you are and what you do.
Renee Yeager: And put your spin on it. Right. So even if you’re sharing someone else’s content, I think a good best practice is to put your opinion on it and call out what’s important about it, what you like about it, what you find interesting. And it gives you an opportunity to have a voice in the conversation, which is so important right now.
Jason Carriere: Yeah, you want to be looked at as a thought leader in regards to your, your industry or your, your vertical.
Renee Yeager:Yeah. Yeah, definitely. What I love about the campaigns that we run on LinkedIn and digital in general, is the ability to pivot when things aren’t working the way you want them to work. I mean, it’s not an all-in and done and the money is spent and you’re out of luck, right? You have the opportunity to really watch and optimize. Testing different ads is very easy to do and it gets back to that campaign tracking, you know, being able to run the most effective campaign you can because you have the ability to optimize it while it’s running.
Jason Carriere: That’s right. Yep, and the optimization is really critical in terms of being able to win the trust of clients, and then also be able to work with them proactively so you’re building off of foundation of trust really from day one.
Renee Yeager: Yeah, yeah, for sure. The second benefit you touched on this a little bit earlier, is this idea of, you know, modern selling, right? So, you know, people don’t really pick up their phone so much anymore.
Jason Carriere: They kind of avoid them, don’t they?
Renee Yeager: Definitely. And now, even with, you know, even your, your iPhone does voice recordings with transcripts. So, you really don’t even have to listen to it anymore. You can just read it but the whole idea of how do we connect with people and how do we build those relationships and that’s absolutely a benefit of digital marketing. In your experience, or when you say a modern social selling kind of benefit, are you talking more at the individual partner seller level or are you talking more about a partner brand being able to kind of build a voice and identity for their company or is it both? I mean, I personally see it as both, but what are your thoughts.
Jason Carriere: Yeah, I would say it’s both. So modern or social selling really is about the ability to add value to a prospect of a client today. You know, it’s, it’s the ability for an individual to basically utilize tools like sales navigator in terms of from a subscription standpoint on LinkedIn. To get better insights around companies and people who you’re trying to win over to your basically to her brain, into your company, into organization to get them to buy from you in some way. To transact in essence. So, you know tools like sales navigator that give you those insights utilizing really the robust first party data on LinkedIn, that’s attached to someone’s profile, being able to save leads. But it’s easier to go to market and to prospect when a client, excuse me, when a prospect doesn’t really or rather know who you are. And that really comes as a result of branding or some type of brand awareness or some type of solution awareness. And the way you get that in particular is through, like, you know, utilizing LinkedIn as far as from a company profile page. Being able to post your content to be able to push it out through your sales team to be able to, you know, share information updates around whatever the current events are in the in the marketplace that might relate to an IT type of solution. And so, what we’ve seen on a consistent basis is this modern social selling you know paradigm happens to me all the time here at the company. So, you know, I’m connected to over 5000 people on LinkedIn. I don’t know, everyone, you know, intimately in the sense of like, you know, we’ve been buddies for 20 – 25 years but I know a lot of folks within my network. And I’ll have salespeople here at LinkedIn asked me, hey, I noticed that you’re connected with this person, you know, from a company or two ago, Jason. Would you mind just t-ing me up in a conversation just using messenger and being able to kind of put them on that note too, or hey I’ve got the person’s email address, would you mind just sort of you know, emailing them as an introduction? So that’s modern social selling. It’s basically leveraging each other’s networks in such a capacity that we’re basically, you know, sort of paying it forward on a continual basis around being able to invest more deeply, and more specifically in relationships and you know as a salesperson for 25 years in the channel myself right it’s all built on relationships because my clients today are not necessarily going to stay at the same company for you know 4, 6, 8 years. They’re going to move around and when they move around, you hope that they remember you and they call you back. And the fact that you can stay in touch with people for a number of years on LinkedIn, where they see a post or they might send you a message or they might like something that you’ve shared is critical because it keeps all of us sort of in the same you know community around, you know, our jobs and our what we’re doing in terms of professionally.
And LinkedIn is really just that easy, you know, a very ready-made platform for professionals, not just to connect for the first time, but then build relationships with each other over the course of many years.
Renee Yeager: I really love sales Navigator. And there are some specific things I really love about it from a marketing perspective. You know, if you’re doing any kind of account-based marketing and trying to keep tabs on accounts and contacts of accounts, when they post stuff or they change jobs, you’re notified. I absolutely love that it’s just, you know, it’s nice to know even just to do outreach to them to congratulate them on the move or to stay in touch to your point, I mean all of that really matters. You know absolutely would matter to a salesperson, that’s on the account. But even at a marketing level where you’re looking more holistically at an account, understanding the dynamics of what’s happening with an account can be really, really powerful.
Jason Carriere: Yeah, and that’s kind of a really unique, you know, opportunity that LinkedIn provides is, you know, utilizing these tools such as such as sales navigator or even like our learning solutions business and being able to view and take courses on LinkedIn now too. Now it creates more stickiness and more, you know, a deeper sort of connection with the platform. But of course, you’re, you’re educating yourself and motivating yourself in certain ways as well around different topics that are relevant to the business community today.
Renee Yeager: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. We have learning paths for all of our entire team.
Jason Carriere: That’s great.
Renee Yeager: Yeah, we’re fans. And the third benefit is really timely, you know Covid right, and you talked about this little bit earlier that you know we’re in the situation where, you know, how we work together has changed, how we sell has changed, even how we market has changed to a degree, and it’s in the channel. It’s kind of forcing a change in behavior because those events aren’t around anymore. And that’s kind of spurring an interest in doing more online, you know, not only webinars as an event replacement, but also what else could we be doing with digital marketing? So how are you, and I I know we talked a bit, a little bit about this earlier, but do you see partners doing any really interesting things on LinkedIn or digital marketing in general that are, you know, they’re being proactive in terms of how they replace those pipeline opportunities and the activities that they’re doing? Have you been hearing anything interesting?
Jason Carriere: Yeah, so it’s great question. A lot of our larger you know channel OEM clients, you know, have had to pivot, you know, very, you know, significantly in the last couple months because they can’t do those online events, you know, the HP discover Conference, or, you know, I was going to speak at the Cisco summit in Austin in March and that was like one of the first events that got pulled down because of Covid and became an online virtual event. In early May, as an example that I presented our community at Cisco and so it’s interesting because,
you know, it’s been a forcing function I think, ultimately, in regards to, you know, as the channel has sort of progressed and matured this has been sort of a booster shot for them and to them in regards to, you know, accelerating some of those digital learnings that they probably should have had over the last couple years, but it was very easy just to continue on with all those in person events as an example. Or just trying to do lead gen campaigns which in and of themselves once again, and there’s nothing wrong with that, but if you just focus on those things only you’re missing out on, you know, the other half of the equation, which is trying to build awareness in the marketplace as well. And so, I think from that perspective, you know, being able to now set up like your own events on LinkedIn in terms and from an activity standpoint. Being able to, you know, kind of take a little bit of a step back around some of potentially your content creation that you may want to focus more on now today. And everyone utilizing the fact and leveraging the fact that everyone is working from home really in tech still and might be through the end of the year, right? I haven’t been face to face with the client, you know, since like February in terms of from a program standpoint. And so it’s tough, because the ability to prospect oftentimes in person was really critical from a salesperson standpoint, they visited a location, they visit a headquarters. You know they have happy hour afterwards and you’re meeting, you know, 12 to 14 new people and I’ve done this myself for years. And you sort of spread the goodwill in person.
Now you can’t do that, but yet you still have to march towards a number in terms of quarter based for salespeople. And for marketers too right in terms of reach and different metrics that they have. So the fact that you have the Covid crisis, the fact that you can’t be in person, you have these different levers, you know, to pull in the marketplace from a digital social standpoint, it’s been critical and what we’ve been able to do with our clients in the channel in particular whether their resellers or you know cloud solution providers or distribution partners or even some of the big OEM clients you know that have been around for decades has been to work with them on either enabling or training their channel partners in some way, shape, or form that sometimes is on a webcast. Or some sort of interactive program or maybe it’s a recording that I’ve done here at LinkedIn with, you know, my CSM as an example. We’ll kind of push that out, but it’s been interesting in the sense of we’re finally sort of getting more and more traction than ever before in regard to the digital space. And our research clients in particular are being turned to more than ever have at least in recent memory in regard to being, you know, advocates and sharing insights around how companies can enable a remote workforce today. Now, I’ve heard some of my clients who have been around for a couple decades like myself talk about the fact that there are similarities between Y2K in the late 90s and what they’ve been going through recently in terms of the urgency around making sure that their customers know sort of the vision around this work from home strategy and how they can be supported from a technology standpoint.
Renee Yeager: That’s so interesting.
Jason Carriere: We’ve only seen increased revenues from the channel. No one has sort of, you know, taking this approach around, you know, going dark or, you know, limiting the amount of advertising. Ultimately what we’ve seen is we’ve seen acceleration, not just from an interest level and outreach and myself and others being engaged within the organization, but also the investments as well because IT pros, IT influencers, decision makers today, you name it, they want more information, but they want the right information as well around what they should be doing with their remote workforces and how they can better enable them to work from home, potentially for the next six, nine or even 12 months, you know, depending upon a vaccine.
Renee Yeager: What um, so just to wrap it up. So, if you’re talking to a channel marketer or supplier or a distributor, what, what recommendations would you have for them to get started doing digital programs for their channel partners?
Jason Carriere: Yeah, that’s a great question. In fact, I can draw upon a couple recent conversations we’ve had here with, you know, large distribution partners in the US. And I’d say the one thing I tell them is you know don’t bite off more than you can chew. You have to be realistic about what you can support in house in terms of your own creative, your own audience targeting, your own budgets versus what you could potentially outsource with an agency or work in hand in hand with an agency as well. And being able to, first I think really set sort of a sit down with your management team and sort of set a 12 or 18 month vision around what it is that you want to accomplish, and where you want to go as a brand, as a company, as an organization. And don’t forget your salespeople your best assets, in my view, personally. You know, speaking as myself, it’s really the salespeople. They are the ones on the front lines every single day. The guys and gals who carried the number, who are working with the clients, who are prospecting tirelessly in regard to going after new business. They are your best assets so leverage them, use them, put them in your advertisements. Talk about you know who they are and what they do, you know, make your brand personal and personable. So start from that perspective and then figure out after you have this 12 or 18 month, sort of, you know, vision or view then share that with companies like LinkedIn around marketing, right. Like tell us about where you want to be in a year, and then how can we help you get from an organic or semi paid sort of stance or set of programs to more of a robust sort of well-rounded type of campaigns or programs that are, you know, that will last for you know 6, 12, 18, 24 months. I think a lot of our clients today, you know, they’re so pressured by the fact that they’re using vendor dollars that they have to get leads and they have to manufacturer leads in some way through some sort of programs and when I say manufacture I’m just talking about generating those leads. But there’s a lot of pressure on them to do so, and I think the challenge that they have on a day to day basis is meeting those requirements. And sometimes they have to say no. Sometimes you’re gonna have to push back a little bit and just say, you know what it sounds like that type of program is going to take me, you know, a month or two to put together. If I launch it tomorrow, it’s not gonna perform well right so let’s figure out from a roadmap standpoint, where we want to be with our vendor community as well over the next 6, 9, 12 months. And if you can do that and you can sort of measure things out and at least create some sort of framework or skeletal around a framework in regard to your roadmap, you’re going to be much more successful, you know, always start with the end in mind. So, if you start from the end in mind or with the end in mind, you’re going to know at least where you’re marching off to and that’s been critical, I think with a lot of our clients who’ve been successful utilizing LinkedIn. They understand where it fits in their ecosystem of digital partners and vendors in essence. And they know that LinkedIn is going to give them reach, scale, efficiency, the ability to build digital relationships, longer term. And then, of course, ultimately capitalizing on these relationships to get new folks to buy from them. So that’s where I would go, you know, start with the end in mind. Have a realistic conversation. Ask for help when you need it. We have plenty of guidance here a great, you know, set of coworkers who support things like content strategy and, you know, all sorts of things in between. And I think if you start with the end in mind and you have more of a limited expectations, at least for the first couple of months around some the advertising that you’re going to do, you set yourself up for a better and longer term success then just thinking that you can sort of boil the ocean from day one.
Renee Yeager: Yeah, I think that shift to longer term thinking and longer-term programs is so critically important
that the short fix doesn’t really work anymore. And plus, it’s a heavy lift. You know it’s a much lighter lift to get your partners engaged in a longer-term program that’s going to consistently have them in market and generating leads and generating awareness, then doing the program that lasts for, you know, eight weeks.
Jason Carriere: Yeah and then just, that’s all. Yeah, there’s no follow on. So, in essence, you’ve created something in the marketplace, but you’re not you’re not sort of, you know, giving any further fuel and that’s a big challenge.
Renee Yeager: It’s a big innovation opportunity because of the way MDF works and how budgets flow and sometimes they need to use it or lose it scenario so that that’s probably part of the challenge, but that long term thinking I agree is just so critical.
Jason Carriere: Yeah.
Renee Yeager: And then, you know, for partners, if you’re talking to channel partners, what, what would you advise them on the best way to move forward.
Jason Carriere: You know, once again, it’s really about starting where you’re capable of starting, you know, again, with our organic program on LinkedIn or on a digital social platform, talking about your company, you know, the resources that you have in regards to your technical resources, the ability to profile your sales people, to talk about your history, talk to US customers in you know advertisements, whether it be short videos or maybe even like infographics or, you know, some sort of static ads, whatever the case might be. But once again, you want to, sort of, you know, get the message out about who it is that you’re servicing, what value you’re providing, and what challenges you’re solving for as well. And I think if you can do that in a consistent manner over a period of time, you’re going to start winning folks within a social digital world, you’re going to start seeing those prospects turn into customers. You know, there’s a top of mind awareness level that you’re going to have, you know, start small, think big. But be practical in the approach as well. And, you know, you’re not going to change things overnight, but once again baby steps lead to larger steps later on. And we’ve seen that time and again here at LinkedIn in terms of from a campaign standpoint and efficiency. And also, we’ve seen that in regard to some of our, you know, larger agencies that we’ve worked with as well, you know, partnerships. So, think about those things in decision making in the decision making process, they’ve gone through today.
Renee Yeager: That’s really great advice so many good opportunities out there and LinkedIn is just perfect for this audience, no question about it.
Jason Carriere: It really is. We would love to be able to, you know, obviously, you know, get that word out to as many folks as we possibly can from the LinkedIn marketing standpoint and enterprise tech. And the numbers prove it themselves with over 700 million people on the platform today. So, it may not be everyone’s full strategy, right. We’d love to have everyone spend every last second and dollar on LinkedIn, but It’s got to be part of the pie. It’s gotta be part of the puzzle mix.
Renee Yeager: Yeah.
Jason Carriere: It has to have a seat at the table in some way, shape, or form because it is such a robust, you know, platform for doing what you need to get done in the marketplace in terms from a B2B standpoint.
Renee Yeager: Yeah. That’s great. Well, thanks Jason, thanks for being on. I really appreciate the conversation and
you sharing all these great insights. Obviously, you can find Jason on LinkedIn. No question there. And be sure to follow LinkedIn’s marketing blog if you don’t already that I think that blog is excellent. It has really really great information and definitely consider LinkedIn for your next channel campaign. And reach out. It’s such an amazing resource for channel marketers and both Jason and Yeager would love to work with you. And lastly, if you liked this episode, don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast and tell your friends about it. So, you can find us on iTunes and SoundCloud. Just search in the app for top three for tech marketers and then you can also find it on our website at Yeager marketing.com Thanks, Jason.
Jason Carriere: Thank you Renee. I really appreciate it.
Renee Yeager: And thanks everyone for listening. We’ll see you next time.