Renee Yeager: All right. Just hit, give me one second. It’s, okay now it’s recording. Alright. Okay. Welcome Matt. We’re so happy to have you on the top three for tech marketers podcast today.
Matt Amundson: Yeah, Renee, I’m so happy to be here. I’m really excited.
Renee: And today, we’re going to talk about the top three ways account selection can help streamline your revenue team. But before we jump in, why don’t you tell our audience a little bit about EverString and what you do over there?
Matt: Yeah, so EverString is a company that really it makes account selection very simple. And the way, sort of the way I like to talk about the product is, we are account selection made simple. Account selection is a really difficult thing for all three phases of a revenue team to deal with. Whether it’s, you know, the marketing department trying to figure out the right companies to target, through marketing campaigns, sales development or inside sales team. Trying to figure out which accounts that they should call next, whether it’s, you know, inbound lead flow or outbound prospecting. And then, for the sales team, really having an understanding of, you know, who are the best targets within a given territory or verticals. So, you know, account selection is something that slows the process down where people are confused and we just want to make it easy. We want to make it so a marketing team could quickly find the companies to market to, a sales development team can quickly find the accounts that they want to engage with, and that a sales team can quickly find the accounts that they want to sell to. And all three phases are in alignment around what those accounts are.
Renee: Yeah. It’s so amazing what we’re able to do today compared to even five or 10 years ago.
Matt: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, my professional experience is really what led me to wanting to be in this space and having a more, you know, account-based strategy around go to market. A lot of that has to do with, you know, my early days at Marketo where, you know, I helped build the initial sales development team there. You know, Marketo is a very heavy inbound organization. They’re world class when it comes to that, but I think a lot of the ways people use Marketo or Eloqua or Pardot, what it leads to is just a lot of leads with high engagement, but not necessarily leads at companies that are a great fit for their business. And so what can happen is marketing’s pushing over leads to the sales team or inside sales team, or sales development team and yeah sure, the people have opened your emails, came and visited you at a trade show or at a field event, clicked on an ad.
But the company that they work for isn’t a good fit. Whether there’s like some sort of technology blocker or business size blocker or go to market strategy blocker or they’re just, you know, yeah, I see what you’re doing and I love your marketing, but actually I’m not a good fit for your product. And so what that leads to in a lot of cases, is distrust between sales and marketing, where the sales team is like, yeah, you’re just kicking over a bunch of leads to us.
But when you take an account focus, when your organization is thinking about, well, geez, these are the companies that are our customers, I want to be able to find more that look just like it and I want to do it in an operationalized fashion and I want to have like a single source of truth of, you know, who are the best accounts and go out and engage with those and hand those over to the sales team. Then, you know, the sales marketing team are sort of high fiving and saying like, gosh, you’re just getting me great lead after great lead. So that is, that is the reason why I joined the company, EverString. That’s the reason why I’m so passionate about this space. And I think it’s a reason why, you know, even if you don’t have a technology like EverString, it’s definitely something to think about. And I’m, you know, excited to talk about that today.
Renee: Well, let me ask you a question first. So when I think of EverString, I always think of predictive, but I have heard that you don’t like the term predictive.
Matt: I don’t, and I actually think that there’s, you know, a lot of the vendors in our space don’t like it. I think it was… Sort of, as a space, kind of came together and a few vendors started to merge. The term, predictive analytics, is what sort of everybody leaned in on because you know, most organizations were using some sort of data science and machine learning to come up with, you know, outcomes and results. And then it really shifted towards the term predictive marketing, which is I think still pretty in vogue. And then, you know, I think, you know, the analyst space was kind of unsure how to lump us all together and they started just running with predictive marketing. The reason why I don’t really like it is in a lot of cases, we don’t really predict anything. You know, we’re pulling together massive amounts of data and signals and we’re saying, hey, you know, based on this, this company looks really similar to one of your customers.
Or, this company may be moving into a time period where they’re looking into a product or solution like what you sell. But, you know, we’re not saying, hey, you know, call this company, because right now they’re definitely going to buy from you. And I think that is the misperception of our space is that oh, you know, you come, you buy a solution from one of these folks and what you’re going to get is a list of companies that are looking to buy. And, you know, that is, that’s something that all of us have to break out of. And, you know, the way we’re breaking out of it is by saying, you know, we’re really an account selection platform.
Renee: Yeah. I mean I could see that. There’s an expectation in the term, but obviously it’s not as, it’s not like looking into a… Oh I lost my train of thought. Morgan, we’re going to have to cut that part right there. Alright, so Matt, we’ll cut that last piece and end it from where you were.
Renee: Yeah, I can absolutely see how folks might think that predictive really means you’re giving me something to go do and it’s going to be a sure thing.
Matt: Yeah. Like it’s black magic or some sort of crystal ball. The reality is it’s not that. It’s just, it’s, you know, a machine that can go out, basically look at your entire addressable market and say, hey, I’ve looked at all these websites, these are the ones that look most like you, right. Just the same way a human being would. And I think, the predictive analytics side of it is definitely true. I mean, we use predictive analytics as human beings on a day to day basis. We look at our past experiences and we use those to make decisions. Even with something as simplistic as, you know, what meal we want to have for dinner tonight, you know, hey, I had sushi and I like sushi and sushi is cold and it’s really, really hot outside as it is here on the West Coast. So, I don’t want to eat anything hot. I know that that’s the outcome that I’m looking for. And that’s probably more akin to what the product actually does. I’ve had success with businesses that look like this and right now I’d like to see more of those. How am I able to operationalize that process in a way where I can get that information, put it directly into my marketing automation system, by CRM if applicable, or any sales tools that they’re using for prospecting or selling?
Renee: Yeah. Well let’s jump into the top three ways that account selection can help streamline your revenue team. And we’ve talked a lot about marketing already, but your first way is through marketing. So can you talk a little bit about your thinking there?
Matt: Yeah, I, sort of, I, you know, this is a great exercise in terms of, you know, the top three and I love just the sort of general theme of this podcast. I took it basically where I split what I would consider to be a revenue team into three pieces. And I thought about it from sort of, top of funnel down, starting with marketing. And really, kind of the first bullet that we use across, you know, marketing, sales development, and sales is using data to align on target accounts for your entire revenue team. I think that’s important. I think most organizations are capable of coming up with some sort of top 25 or top 50 list of accounts that they want to target because you know, they’ve either had some prior success or they built a product with companies like that in mind. Or, they just, you know, I want to sell to Salesforce, or I want to sell to Oracle, or I want to sell to Microsoft, and sort of, you know, it sort of cascades down from there.
But I think where people have a lot of shortcomings is getting past that point of saying, all right, here’s my top accounts. How do I find the next, you know, two thousand, three thousand, four thousand, twenty thousand. Because, you know, not everybody runs an account based marketing practice, but a lot of people want to think about things from an account-centric point of view. And that is to say, these are companies we want to sell to. Let’s target those companies. But how do I find them? How do I stack rank them? So using data, using machine learning, using artificial intelligence, which is, you know, all these huge buzzwords, you know, throughout the B2B landscape is really a great way to do that. Essentially, it’s like taking a human being, as I said earlier, and looking over the entire space, one by one by one, and making decisions. We want to be able to do that rapidly.
So, you know, massive amounts of data can be pulled together so we can have a very broad base understanding of a total addressable market. So, using data is important instead of just using sort of intuition and then sharing that data with sales and sales development. That’s step one. I think what’s really great is there’s all these buying signals and intent data. You know, EverString, we’re a partner with a company called Bombora, which is just fantastic, to really sort of take it to the next layer. And what I mean by that is, you know, if you’re using a predictive solution or account selection solution, as I like to say, like at EverString, you can quickly understand all the companies that you’d want to sell to. But by layering on, you know, an intent provider like Bombora, you can sort of see the cream of that. Which is to say, you know, of all these companies that I could sell to, here are the ones that are the best fit.
But I want to take it a step further and I want to say, who are the ones that are exhibiting intent and showing buying signals? And you can take that data and be really, really smart and sophisticated with it as a marketer, in a lot of different ways. The first is, you know, you can obviously do email marketing. I’m sure a lot of listeners are using platforms like [inaudible 00:10:23], Eloqua, or Pardot. And that’s a great sort of first step. There’s… The next step is, you know, sort of, how do I take that outside of just email marketing and use it broadly across my entire marketing mix. And I think there’s been huge advancements in the digital advertising space. So, you know, companies that we like working with, a company like Terminus out in Atlanta, you could take these accounts that are a great fit, exhibiting buying behavior, and just target those with ads, right?
And it’s amazing because, you know, what Bombora does is, it tells you on a weekly basis, here are the companies that are looking into your space that may never even have hit your website or interacted with a piece of marketing from your business. And they’ll… And you can take that data and load it directly into Terminus and start serving them ads. Even if you don’t have contact information, an email address or anything like that. And I think that’s really, really powerful because if I’m a marketer and I’m out and I’m thinking about, you know, what, what do I need to do? I need to get some sort of solution to enhance my social media, right? And I start doing research on that. Well, there’s a company out there that can do that. They are able to get those signals and start serving me ads.
So when I’m out on the business internet looking for solutions like that, I start to get hit with ads that are telling me, hey, I can do exactly what you’re looking for. And that’s really, really powerful. The second or the third piece is really around like field and events. So, a lot of people struggle with this. They may be going to, you know, a massive event like Oracle OpenWorld or the Oracle Experience or you know, Dreamforce, or you know, one of Microsoft’s large conferences, I think that they call it Ignite now. And you know, they’re kind of like, oh, well, you know, there’s got to be 40-ish thousand businesses there. How do I find the right companies to target? And you know, with, with a platform like at EverString, you can quickly build a model for companies that have a technology like that, or talk about technologies like that, whether it’s Salesforce or Oracle or Microsoft.
And use that to build, you know, this really targeted audience. And, I’ll give you a real world example. We went to a small-ish conference. There’s a company called SalesLoft that does, has a wonderful sales acceleration product out of Atlanta. And they put on a conference, there was about eight or 900 people there, and we had gone the year before and collected, I don’t know, 50, 60 names. And we used that data to build a broader list and say, show me every company that looks just like this. And we were able to build a list of companies, I think it was about 12 or 1300 businesses. And we used that to go out and book a 150 meetings at that event prior to it starting, right. We weren’t even sure these companies were going, but they looked so much like the companies that had gone the year before. And it was amazing, we ended up booking meetings with about one-sixth of the attendees of the event. So, there’s really great ways that you can use it for not just email or ad, but also for your field and event marketing. So those are sort of my top three ways where you can be using account selection a lot smarter in marketing.
Renee: You know, what strikes me about everything you’re saying here is just not only the power of all of this, but how it can bring marketing and sales together-
Renee: -tighter to function as such a high performing team. Right? Because all of us are spending our time on our best opportunities and doing our best efforts.
Matt: That’s exactly right. And I think there’s this, there’s this statement that has always stood out to me because, you know, as a sales development leader, as a marketing leader, throughout my career, I’ve been hit with it from salespeople so often. And that is when a salesperson closes a deal, and they’ll come to me and they’ll say, you know, hey Matt, that was a great deal. I’ll tell you what, if I could find more companies just like that, or if you could send more leads from companies just like that, I would absolutely crush my quota. And that, in a nutshell, is what EverString is built to do. Right? On the back end of EverString is this really, really powerful company graph. And, what it does essentially, you know, the same way Facebook or Linkedin functions where it’s keeping all these sort of columns of information on individuals.
We do that, but for businesses and so, you know, you could take just a single closed one deal, load it into EverString and find multiple businesses that look just like it. And I think that’s what the power of account selection is. It’s, you know, you close a deal as a salesperson or a salesperson closes a deal and an SDR wants to go find more that look like it. You know, there’s really unsophisticated ways to do that. Most people are using things like Google to find those types of results, but Google doesn’t really function that way. It’s just looking for those search terms. So, you know, by taking just a single example or multiple examples and building audiences that look just like your customers, that helps to drive the alignment between sales and marketing because marketers are focused on engaging with accounts that look just like the ones they just closed. And that’s how you build trust in an organization.
Renee: Right. So your second way takes us into sales development.
Renee: All right, so let’s talk a little bit about that. So if we’re bubbling up all these great opportunities, these most likely to be interested in our solution, because they have some relevance to another account that did, what happens in the sales development phase?
Matt: Yeah. So, just for a quick nomenclature check. You know, when I’m talking about sales development, it’s really akin to an inside sales team, or a business development team, or an account development team. There’s a lot of, you know, names to sort of identify what that is. And I’ve always used the term sales development. It was a term that was very in vogue at Salesforce in like 2009, 2010. I used it when we were at Marketo. But sales development, they’re really those like kind of frontline people, who are responding to inbound leads or doing outbound prospecting with the thought towards, hey, I want to book meetings. I want to book qualified meetings for the sales team. And, you know, when… For sales development, you know, I think I alluded to this a little bit earlier, my experience at Marketo where, you know, there’s sort of like this cavalcade of leads coming in, you know, leads that are all sort of exhibiting the same type of behavior.
Really hard to distinguish between. And I think the way to do a better job of prioritization is based upon the companies that they work for. So, if an SDR has a sense of, hey, here’s this great lead, they’re highly engaged with us, and they work at a company that’s fantastic. I want to prioritize that. The company’s an amazing fit. I want to do… I want to spend more time personalizing messaging to that person. So it feels like a message that’s very individualized for them. I’m sure every listener on here, like myself as a marketer, is absolutely bombarded with canned email after canned email after canned email. And marketing can send messages like that. Marketing can send you your HTML broad based one to many type of messages, but sales development should not. Right? I feel like, you know, I’m very strong in my opinion, that sales development is a part of marketing. I know other people believe it should be a part of sales.
It’s different strokes for different folks. Nobody’s wrong. It’s just my personal opinion. And it’s because I believe sales development should be the human channel of marketing. A person reaching out to another person. And the best way to prove that you’re a person is through personalizing messages, right? Taking the time, doing your research, understanding, you know, what that person and the company that they work for is really interested in, or excited. What are the types of things they’re talking about in social? So it’s taking those signals and applying them to your messaging. And I love to do it. Like this is very tactical, not strategic. I really like to do my personalization right in the subject line of an email, right? There’s simple ways of doing it, that are very easy to operationalize. You can use a token for their first name, but you know, what my SDR’s here at EverString like to do is, you know, they like to see something that they just did on Linkedin or Twitter and you know, say like, you know, Renee, I read your recent article titled this on LinkedIn, or I saw your comment on this article, and use that because, you know, when you’re looking down your inbox, if you see your name, if you see something that you’ve just done in a subject line, you’re so much more apt to open it.
And hopefully, if the content is good and compelling and the CTA or call to action is clear, they’ll take action with that. So, sorry for ranting on sales development there. But I think that’s what’s really important, is distinguishing the difference between the types of messaging that comes from a marketing professional, and the types of messaging that come from a sales development professional.
Renee: I could not agree with you more in that we are so bombarded with, you know, non-personalized largely irrelevant emails in our inbox.
Renee: Scrolling down and I saw that someone actually had read something that I wrote in comments in the subject line? I would read that email. No question.
Matt: Totally. And there’s easy ways too. I mean, every single person is listed to the school that they attended, right? You could be like… And it shouldn’t be non-tech… It shouldn’t be unprofessional, right? It shouldn’t just be like, hey Matt, like the UCLA Bruins had an amazing comeback last weekend, which they did. But it can be, you know, hey Matt, you know, from being on the UCLA football team to being a VP of Marketing, that’s amazing. But that’s a great way to start a conversation, right? And it’s something that’s there and present for literally every single professional. You know, I never think it’s a good idea to just say, you know, hey Matt, you’re a Bruin. Like yeah, I definitely am. It’ll probably catch my attention, but it’s your opportunity to sort of flatter somebody if you’ve got nothing going on, and it works really, really well.
So that’s, that’s a great way to personalize, throw it right in the subject line. And then the thing that I’ll say just, and I’ll wrap this up here, is don’t bait and switch. Don’t personalize in the subject line and then give me a canned message in the body of an email. You sort of got to take that thought and run with it for a sentence or two, before you go into your value props. But I think that is a really great way to get someone’s attention. Sort of draw them into what your messaging is, you know.
And I get messages from prospects that my SDR’s are reaching out to all the time that are like, man, your SDR hit me with this message that was so incredible, there was no way that I could say no to taking a meeting with your product or solution. So, it’s that type of thing that really helps kickstart a great sales cycle. Because if a prospect is having an experience like that with an SDR or an inside salesperson, they’ve already got this great feeling about your business. And I’ll tell you, if someone’s coming with a positive attitude into a sales cycle, every account executive in the world is feeling a lot better.
Renee: Yeah. Really. So, talking about messaging and content, aside from personalization, do you have any tips or best practices for our listeners about how they can improve their messaging or content for account based marketing?
Matt: Yeah, there’s… Yes. So, I think the biggest issue that I see right now, just kind of broadly across marketing, is people use a lot of self-speak. And trying to get out of that is really, really important. Like people use a lot of phraseology or terminology that their business uses. But the outside world doesn’t necessarily use. And so, you know, they kind of look at that and they say it’s meaningless, especially if you’re marketing to a really broad audience. I’ve been very guilty of this as a marketer, not only in the campaigns that I’ve run in the past, but also in some of the content that I’ve created. You know, in places like Linkedin Pulse and stuff, where I’ll use terms that I think are like, I think everybody uses, like I use the term SDR, which stands for sales development rep, which is a fairly common title here in Silicon Valley.
But, I had put that in a post and somebody in the comment section was like, I don’t know what an SDR is, or I don’t know what the term SDR stands for. And so, you know, to me that’s like this just sort of microcosm for thinking more broadly about how you talk about your own product and really breaking it down, not necessarily into layman’s terms, but into more broad and available marketing terms. That, I think that’s really important and people lose sight of that a lot because they get really excited. And, you know, a bunch of marketers are sitting around and they’re like, oh, we should talk about it this way. And they’re like, yeah, I totally get that. But it gets lost on a broad audience. I think that’s, that’s a big deal. I also think content just in general, plays such a critical piece in any good solid demand gen strategy, and I think because people realize that, there’s been a proliferation of content. But a lot of that content is, has become really thought leadership-oriented.
The content that I love as a marketer, and I love actually as a prospect, is anything that’s, you know, coming from one of your customers. And not even necessarily just a case study. It doesn’t have to be as, you know, sort of dry as that. It can be a conversation with a customer on why they love your product, or how they’re using account selection to grow their business. Things like that. I think that’s much more powerful. I think content in general should speak more from your customer’s voice, when you can do that. As a small business, that can be difficult, but I think we should all be striving for putting our customers first. Or at the very least, using our customers as anchors for why our content… For why we’re creating our content, and the message that we’re trying to get across from it.
Renee: Well, and then sharing those best practices, from someone who’s actually using the product, goes a long way. Right? It’s not you telling the customer, it’s your customer telling someone else-
Renee: – this has helped my business. You know, we talk with our clients here… I think it’s known that when you send an email sequence and you’re either targeting an industry or you’re going after something specific, that the content that you include on that email blast should be relevant to what you’re promoting. But I continue to be surprised. I’ll get emails and they’ll talk about something specific that’s relevant to me. Say it’s about an agency and then the content that’s attached is really, really generic.
Renee: I think it’s such a mistake, and it’s so easily fixable.
Matt: So easily fixable. But I think the problem is, and it’s nobody’s fault other than how much pressure marketers are under just to get campaigns out the door-
Matt: -they use content as broadly as they can. One of the things that we’ve been really successful with in trying to make content as relevant as possible, is by sort of drinking our own champagne, we use your own products. When we’re getting case studies and we’re getting really like deep with a customer, we’re actually able to use our product to say, show me more businesses just like this customer. And then we can build a list of accounts and target them with that content. So, instead of, you know, I know we’ve all, we’ve all received messages like this, I get them all the time, where it’s, you know, hey Matt, we’re helping customers like Microsoft and Salesforce and Oracle or Staples.com achieve x, y, and z. Here’s a case study. And I’m like, that is, I’m so happy for your business. You’ve got an amazing group of customers, but they just don’t anything like me. And so, you know, as a marketer I sort of look at that, or as a prospect I look at that and just say, well this is an enterprise grade solution and, you know, I’m a series B type company so, this isn’t right for me. And so, there’s really interesting ways with account selection that you can take your content marketing to the next level.
Renee: Yeah, that’s really interesting actually too because whoever wrote that is thinking that because we’ve worked with these companies, that’s enough-
Renee: -to be relevant to you. But in reality, you as the buyer, you’re looking for something similar to your business.
Matt: That’s right.
Renee: Not as impressive that you work with the, you know, Fortune 50 company if I’m a small to medium business.
Renee: That’s really interesting. Okay, so let’s go to the last one, which is further down. So we’re into sales now.
Renee: And what are your thoughts here?
Matt: Yeah. So, you know, this is interesting. It’s very similar to what we talked about before, but the motions are a lot more different, so. Or a lot different. So, when you have an understanding of the accounts that you’ve sort of targeted as a business or prioritize as a business, you have an understanding of who your customers are, and who the customers in that group are similar to your customers. So, you know, it’s a lot of what I’ve been preaching throughout this. It’s referencing customers success to go close a deal, right? It’s your ability because you as a company have taken a list of customers, built out a list of accounts that are similar, and your marketing team has messaged that with great content, with great emails. Your SDRs have gone out and engaged that, told the story from a human perspective, made it really about their business.
Now it’s your opportunity as a salesperson to say, you know, hey, Salesforce.com, you know, we’re working with Microsoft Dynamics and we’ve given them this incredible lift and you know, deal velocity, or closed one, or engagement, or whatever the metric that’s important to your business. We can provide that same level of service and those same results to you. So, it’s this idea that you can take your customer success, find more businesses that look just like it and start utilizing that in a way that helps you, not only engage, but also close because, you know, I think the sort of overarching theme of what we’ve talked about is all about, you know, referencing customers. It’s a great way to go close a deal. It’s not just, hey, I built this case here for you and I think it’s going to be awesome. We’ve run this incredible cycle, but I can show you repeatability across other businesses that have chosen to work with us, and are seeing these levels of success. I think that’s the thing that’s really important.
The other thing too is, you know, for these sales teams that can be large. Our sales team is relatively small, certainly compared to, you know, businesses like Salesforce and Oracle. Having an understanding of companies in your database that are customers that are similar to the one that you’ve closed also helps you engage with, you know, other account executives that have closed deals that are similar. What type of plays did you run? Did you involve certain types of executives? What was the content that you used? What was the story that you told? What parts of our product did you highlight versus other parts? So it becomes a bit of a sales enablement tool when everybody’s playing off the same set of accounts.
Renee: I love that. We talk to our clients a lot about, tell us where you have success with your solution, what increase do clients can withstand, and then let’s figure out why you’re so successful there, and then enable your team to continue that and repeat it with others.
Matt: Absolutely. Absolutely. And, I mean, you know, for us, we’re a business that’s had a lot of success in the learning management space, which is great because it’s got lots of vendors. There’s one really cool thing that we can do with our product that they’re all very attracted to, and we realized, that quickly because you know, we went out, we closed a deal, we built a model to find more businesses like it. We ran the exact same play at that company and said, hey, you know, we’ve got this really cool feature. You know, this customer is using it, and they’re using it to accelerate, and they’re like, wow, I want to buy that. Maybe we went from having one to two and then we went from having two to four. Then we went from four to eight. You know, and for a business of our size, you know, wow bringing on eight customers in a similar space, in a very short period of time, is this incredible use case for our product. And it’s great because, you know, we don’t just have to keep that to ourselves. We can tell that to our customers, and they can use the product in the exact same way.
Renee: Yeah. Are there specific data points that you recommend that companies prioritize above others or really they’re just not important at all?
Matt: Yeah, I think that’s tough. It really varies from business to business, right? And I’ll sort of, you know, let you in here. On the learning management side, we’re able to surface this great signal that’s kind of hard to get. It’s easy to get, but it’s hard to get at scale, which is, does a business have multiple locations? Does the business have multiple employees in multiple locations? Because that is like the trigger point for bringing on a learning management system. Once you have, you know, salespeople that are outside of the four walls of your business, it’s really hard to enable them. And so for learning management companies, or if you have any employees, not just salespeople, for learning management companies, that’s this great signal that, you know, that leads them towards, you know, a potential buyer. Now, for us that signal is, it’s kind of meaningless. But for their business, really, really important. We have another customer-
I apologize for my Slack. We have another customer, Apptis, who for a long time in their business could only sell to Salesforce customers. So really for them, the most important signal was that a vendor was running or a prospect had, you know, from a techno-graphic perspective, they had Salesforce as their CRM. So it really, it kind of changes from business to business.
I’ll let you in on this really weird thing that we were able to discover when I was at Marketo. We found that businesses that had a two or more color logo were like 75 times more likely to buy our solution than ones that had a single color logo, which was really weird. But it was just this thing that we were able to realize really quickly, and it made sense because, you know, companies that, you know, had spent dollars either with an outside design firm to create a logo, were the types of people that were going to spend dollars on a marketing automation system. Companies that had evolved from, you know, maybe a stealth or series A company where they didn’t, you know, they were kind of just like, hey, like we’ll make this logo really quickly in Photoshop and it’ll do for now were probably not ready to bring on a solution like that. So, you know, it’s crazy. It ranges from business to business. I don’t think that there’s sort of one specific signal. I think technology is very important. I think, you know, for certain businesses, like having… A company having high growth potential is very important. But it does vary from business to business.
Renee: Well, and to your point earlier, if you look at the companies that you’ve had success with and you build a profile around what’s unique about them-
Renee: – and other companies with that profile, two color logos, whatever it is, that makes a ton of sense. Well, Matt, I just can’t thank you enough for being on, and this was such a great conversation and such interesting insights. Thank you.
Matt: Yeah, thank you so much for having me. Long time coming, I’ve been excited for this. I’ve had this circled on the calendar for a while, so thank you so much for having me, Renee.
Renee: I’m so glad Matt, thanks. We’ll see you again next time.
Matt: Okay. Bye.